Build talk:Team - AB Balanced
Why a ranger? Ok, snare (12sec recharge :< ), degen and interrupts are nice but.. Just run 2 frontliners imo, Build:Team - AB Dual Physical --[[User:Novii|'No']][[User_talk:Novii|'vii']] 16:22, December 15, 2009 (UTC) :Last time someone made an AB team build called Balanced people flipped because it DIDN'T have a ranger. Jahangir92 17:07, December 15, 2009 (UTC) ::Yes i dont think the ranger is necessary at all NegroHunter 21:48, July 29, 2010 (UTC) :::Well done for being 7 months late!--Oskar 21:52, July 29, 2010 (UTC) ::I am of the belief that if you throw any meta builds that have decent synergies together, you will have yourself a good team for AB, rly somebody should just make a fricken AB templateSmity Smitingtontalk2me 17:25, December 15, 2009 (UTC) :::This Build:Team - AB Dual Physical is already a template but, believe it or not, different builds are played differently. Thought you would know that. If you think we should just have a basic template then delete ALL the ranger and hammer warrior bars with different elites. Why don't they get deleted? Because they all serve different purposes and are played differently. This is a balanced AB build and it should definitely be vetted (quite a lot of people run this build, so it's kind of "meta") Jahangir92 13:44, December 16, 2009 (UTC) ::::I use a setup similar to this simply because VoR is for faggots.--'Ajsnuker' 21:56, December 17, 2009 (UTC) zz :I believe the users above us are fine examples of why none takes AB seriously, Dr. Thomas. --'-Chaos- (moo) '-- 11:06, December 21, 2009 (UTC) why not draw over mend on the monk bar?--Afya 20:31, December 24, 2009 (UTC) If you absolutely need to create an AB build, then please dont suggest running mind blast on your ele. The only logical build for an ele is SH. Savannah -> Searing -> Meteor wipes most shrines solo and rodgorts finishes all others off. MB should even be an option, its much slower and you cant cap as quickly. If your team does get split up which isnt uncommon at all, I'd rather be able to solo shrines than to take forever to wipe a shrine by myself. -- 20:35, December 24, 2009 (UTC) :You do realize there is more to AB than capping shrines right? Cake Archer 23:10, December 24, 2009 (UTC) ::please enlighten me. last i checked you win AB by capping shrines. -- 23:31, December 24, 2009 (UTC) :::Hell, just create an AB build with 4 ele's who split and solo cap shrines. That's all you need. --'-Chaos- (moo) '-- 00:15, December 25, 2009 (UTC) ::::i wouldnt exactly agree with this proposal, but yeah, something along those lines -- 06:01, December 25, 2009 (UTC) :::::Never tried because I never have players for it, but I suppose it could take on mobs just as well as shrines. --'-Chaos- (moo) '-- 17:27, December 25, 2009 (UTC) ::::::If you only intend to nuke shrines Assasin's Promise Nuker does it much better than SH. MB works better vs players Jahangir92 18:59, December 26, 2009 (UTC) :::::::Why would I need instant recharge when stuff loads in between running to shrines? --'-Chaos- (moo) '-- 22:57, December 26, 2009 (UTC) ::::::::Glyph of Sacrifice->Meteor Shower. If it's taking you 90 seconds to run between shrines you're doing it wrong. Jahangir92 00:01, December 27, 2009 (UTC) :::::::::Umm no, sh is better. [[User:Novii|'«No']][[User_talk:Novii|'vii«']] 00:04, December 27, 2009 (UTC) :::::::::I usually stop for a good cuppa at my good friends, The Heltzer's, enjoying the peaceful zen in the heart of the storm of the battle of the alliances, which after I invest a few minutes on catching up with latest gossip and how they're doing. Then I quickly screw your mom, and zipping my pants I run to the next shrine in perfect post-coital clarity. --'-Chaos- (moo) '-- 01:19, December 27, 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::You only need savannah heat, teinai's/searing heat, and rodgorts invocation to solo cap all shrines. you only need meteor/meteor shower for monk, ele, and maybe warrior. This doesnt matter since you should be with your group the whole time. gos wastes a skill slot, use 40/40 set. cripshot or magebane is better than melandrus--[[User:Relyk|'Relyk']] talk 20:37, December 31, 2009 (UTC) needs meteor on the sh bar. — Maf so rational. 08:20, January 1, 2010 (UTC) :Fixed. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman] 11:41, January 1, 2010 (UTC) LAWL, AB build with a meta tag --'Ajsnuker' 22:28, February 6, 2010 (UTC) :i thought the same thing -_- 04:57, March 24, 2010 (UTC) cripslash imo imo! keeping adren between shrines is pretty hawt, too. no, taking conjure and rush is too much bother. also, you can never have enough cripple ;o — Maf so rational. 02:07, April 13, 2010 (UTC) question why a ZB monk? imo, as in AB redbar is generally superior. Or stick NS in there over disc/sprint, and add shielding hands or SoR. Or maybe just put either bar in as optional, seeing as teams usually don't discriminate -- Star talk 22:57, April 16, 2010 (UTC) :Tbh, I just kept it as what it was. ZB strides aren't that popular compared standard WoH monks. Change if you wish. Just drop Sprint and bring cure hex and drop Disc for Balanced. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman] 23:08, April 16, 2010 (UTC) ::done, also, prage needs a change since it has no IAS that can be used at the start, and you don't wanna prage-lock with e-charge or sprint. -- Star talk 23:23, April 16, 2010 (UTC) :::let's put up a boon signet bar, since that works in ab too--[[User:Relyk|'Relyk']] talk 00:14, April 17, 2010 (UTC) :::: Trollin' dirty. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman] 00:17, April 17, 2010 (UTC) Alright, fuck it seems this build will get a trash vote because it offers a variant to the frontline, Earth Shaker. The point is, you have the choice to choose between these two builds. If it keeps getting 3-3 votes just because of a variant to a build then why not remove it? The point is if one build makes the rest bad then why not just fix it? Eviscerate is much more stronger and versitile than a hammer warrior as it is. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman] 19:00, June 30, 2010 (UTC) :Clearly nobody on wiki plays ab, want me to fix this build?--Silven Shadow 07:48, July 3, 2010 (UTC) ::This is how our guild plays. ZB makes me laugh seriously it's horrid, Make haste > sprint crap. There's a few war builds ofc, CRIPSHOT IS A MUST not melshot...>> if you can't cap without a heat i seriously dont know what you're doing (are you sure all your team members are at their keyboards because you dont need heats to cap) if you have 0 field vision and dont know how to select party members bring remove hex over infuse. simple, yet 40000x better then the one on the main page. ::--Silven Shadow 08:01, July 3, 2010 (UTC) ::^ infuse rangers are so sensual --Brandnew 08:53, July 3, 2010 (UTC) :::go play one--Silven Shadow 11:22, July 3, 2010 (UTC) Eviscerate in ab Seems there's better choices for an axe warrior. You have your pick of coward, whirling axe or shove with dismember. All of which are better suited for 4v4. A shove axe bar allows for rending touch--giving both stance and enchant strip, albeit conditional. 08:48, July 25, 2010 (UTC) :No. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman] 17:31, July 25, 2010 (UTC) ::oh yes. 00:57, July 26, 2010 (UTC) ::Coward is still fucking hot in AB, Doctor No.--Pirate 21:01, July 25, 2010 (UTC) :::Coward is pretty good everywhere, tbh. 00:57, July 26, 2010 (UTC) :::Shut up--Oskar 21:14, July 25, 2010 (UTC) ::::Either Evis or Tactics coward works for axe, and the dev hammer for hammer. The problem with pvx is that nobody plays ab properly so they don't know zb sucks ass and non-R/Mo's also suck ass.--Silven Shadow 23:25, July 25, 2010 (UTC) :::::I dunno, seems to me that 8 adrenaline skills on an axe bar are a bit iffy for 4v4.. especially when it takes another 8 to re-apply deep wound. Bonus damage be damned. Ol' Vincent up there thinks all you need for party condition removal is mending touch on the monk soooo.. yeah. 00:59, July 26, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Now im mad, since apparently Vicent decides what goes on pvx even though he sucks at ab. You actually need non-bad players to put up the builds and he's just fucking it up.--Silven Shadow 02:43, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :::::::You dont have to be good to be good at ab. Shut up.--Oskar 02:45, July 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::That's the difference of you being total shit and me being good.--Silven Shadow 03:00, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :::::::::All I see from a no name shitter like you is "BAWW he wouldn't take my edit on PvX or even bothered to try to help me make a change nobody gives a crap about". Come up with some decent arguements instead of the same bullshit of where X is bad at Y. You worthless waste of matter. Get some logic inside your fucking head. It is going to stay as Eviscerate. :) Vincent Evan [Air Henchman] 04:04, July 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::::1st ive never seen your scrubby ass in ab, so that'd make you the worthless shitter. especially with the zb and ranger build you put up. and second i love evis war and tactics equally because theyre just so damn sexy. My point is Cripshot shits all over melshot and if you want to actually play ab one day ill kick your ass to prove it--Silven Shadow 04:53, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :::::::::::LOL, i've been abing for 4 years. Besides the fact it is filled with bad players like (calling me a shitter, lol nice.) you. Once again, come up with a decent arguement- actually, no. Don't. You aren't worth my time. Try to revert what I do and I will revert iback. Try to revert and again then you are violating PvX policy. So you won't go anywhere with that. Take your baww and rage to somewhere else, where somebody might care. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman] 04:57, July 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::::::ok first, playing along time doesnt mean you're good, infact since you still suck after playing that long it means you're much worse. Second HOW THE FUCK does melshot beat cripshot? because last time i checked you can only play it defensively or offensively every 12seconds instead of cripshot which you can play offensively and defensively. 3rd nobody knows you srsly, youre a pvx nub and im trying to put up the real ab meta so bad newbies (not to be confused with bad noobs, like yourself) dont start up on the wrong foot. so in conclusion youre very bad, you have clearly got no clue and your little bitch oskar or w/e who invented the lolwtfcompleteshit ab guide sometimes make me laugh from how shit you are and sometimes cry because i know pvx-ab isnt moderated by people with half a brain. So by all means keep these builds up, i just end up kicking more players for having no clue (and making them cry like you) and winning more games. oh and btw, literally nobody knows you srsly all the exit/srs/other good ab players have no fucking idea who you are,except for "that bad ab wiki dude" hf tard--Silven Shadow 05:05, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :Baw More Say your e-enemy is crying ???? Feel good about your pitiful self Good thinking chief. Once again, take it where someone cares. AB isn't that hard, don't take pride in being good at it. It just makes you look like a dumbass insulting other players, even if that player is vincent. Melshot has been on the build before it got nerfed or cripshot buffed, no one has bothered updating it. I'd say it's a preference on whether you want to use mel or crip though. zb isn't as terrible as you say either, most people prefer woh however so we kept both bars. Most people will know which one they prefer to play. vincent has his own henchman in the guild hall so most people should recognize him ^^--[[User:Relyk|'Relyk']] talk 05:09, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :im trying to update it so its useable but this scrub reverts, i play gvg as a 1st preference and ab if there arent 8 on (and there usually isnt) so yeah i play a lot of ab and im good at it. ive played hundreds of games where you just laugh at melshot/zb people because melshot: doesnt provide nearly enough snare to stop defence and offence and zb: is the single heal, which means, if you arent bad (or bad with good ping) you can shut down their heals in one dshot. and people know "vinny"thru the henchmen yes, but they dont relate it to a good aber or player, if you were to mention the player name theyd just say "oh got it from pvx" w/e i dont care. so im trying to help nubs out in ab so sometimes we dont have to carry 2 other teams.--Silven Shadow 05:18, July 28, 2010 (UTC) ::Congrats, CRange gvg when it meant something, high rank balance and rspike in HA. I've been abing since I started playing. I can stretch my E-Peen too. Nobody thinks AB is real PvP so stop trying to compare to high tier PvP. You're making a joke of a community of players PvX thinks is bad, AB. :) Vincent Evan [Air Henchman] 05:23, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :::Keep on topic really, I said that I do prefer GvG over AB, because I like GvG and AB is not the be all and end all of pvp. Mainly because it's not ranked and any baddie can join. I've played with terribly bad builds and still won against balanced teams who just have no clue how to play. But when you come up against a semi-decent group, you want to have the best balanced builds possible to use, since you need any edge you can get. Sometimes AB is serious for me, you might think "lol ab srs good joke" but sometimes I just wanna have a good game and nobody is available for GvG. Carrying four teams is really shit and I hate it, so I'm trying to help out low nubs so that they don't have as bad builds as they do, because I know they'll look on pvx. You're just being extremely stubbourn, I've played all the builds here and I can say with 100% sureness, that two teams with the exact same skill level, one with mels and one with cripshot, the cripshot team would win. Same example with WoH and ZB, the WoH would win. SO, maybe some players have certain preferences, because they cant play all builds well, I wouldn't mind as much, put it in variants because this is supposed to be a good build. --Silven Shadow 05:34, July 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::I'm not being stubborn, I am just not going to tolerate your shittery, especially about an AB team. I've AB'd more than you, I am clearly better at AB than you. I am better at arguing than you. I don't need to resort to calling people scrubs our trying point out that I have a supposed "lack of skill". Keep doing that, it TOTALLY makes you look like a good player. Just kidding. Even if I were to consider you a good player (which I never would just because of the way you talk) it would be instantly denied because all good players left Guild Wars long ago. You take AB way to seriously, and this coming from an addicted ABer. Stop trying to make AB something it isn't, nor it should ever be. Troll me on my talk page if you wish. I love it when people flame the user and not the build on a build page. However, I must warn you, if you do it, I won't be hesitated to call you out on your own lack of skill in this game! So you better watch out! Anyways, about the build. The warrior's mainbar shall stay as Eviscerate and not "Coward!". I could give two shits about "Coward!" as Eviscerate is normally an AB standard. If you don't like it then run your own variant, however this is not my version of balance, this is PvX's. Get that right. The author of the page does not own the build as that violates PvX's policy. So please, try to cover up your lack of PvX experience and stop calling it mine. Second of all, if you could please stop trying to flame me? Your shameful attempts to do so either A: Stop trying to troll, you aren't good at it. Or B: Take your mental retardation somewhere else, like Guild Wars Guru. I think you should go with the latter, as most players tend to keep their ignorance instead of learning, especially in this day of age in Guild Wars. You kept me entertained on this whole ordeal and actually took me as surprised. You sadly tried to defend your own reasons for an AB BUILD. Even more than I do. Which is pretty fucking pathetic. Stop trying and get the fuck off PvX. Going back to the build, about Melandru's, I wrote it up from a draft where which Melandru's Shot was present, not Crippling Shot. I would have gone with my own biased opinion and went with Crippling, but instead I kept it neutral and used Melandru's, a generic skill that a majority of rangers have and use. Unlike you, when I made this build I didn't go about and BAWWW how it used X over Y, I went with the bigger picture in mind and went with the generic skill. If you learn how to get past your own, shitty, biased opinion you become one step at becoming a subpar playing, still shit, but slightly better from the worst. Once again (seeing I have to POUND THIS INTO YOUR FUCKING IGNORANT HEAD) stop trying to defend this. Keep it the way it is. It is perfect the way it is and is no need to be changed as of yet. Oh, and before I forget, ZB is once again a PvX standard. Any idiot would know that Word of Healing is more effective than Zealous Benediction. However, your bitterness towards me after I "Rudely reverted your changes" made you think otherwise. As I type this I wonder what retardation will spew out that horrid mouth of yours. Will you call me a scrub? Or perhaps a stupid shitter? What things can ignorant ABer and sadly, a wannabe GvGer could say? I can think of plenty. Please refrain from doing so, as they will be overlooked and you will be called out for your lack of argument in this sad fucking excuse of a flame war you have had with me. Good night, retard. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman] 05:53, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :::: you'll be carrying noobs whether or not they have good builds because they still suck, and most of them want to use their "own" build instead of a wiki build. 4v4 in ab comes down to skill rather than builds, however the focus of ab is capping rather than 4v4. A balanced build pretty much means proficiency in 4v4 while retaining capping ability. tbh you shouldn't be fighting other groups at all unless its a pug because you could spend that time capping instead of a stalemate. If you want to help noobs, you're better off updating the cap-oriented ab teams since those will be more useful. As for woh vs zb, it's a matter of preference, the popular opinion is that the stride monk is a great build so you'll have to deal with it.--[[User:Relyk|'Relyk']] talk 05:38, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :::::So in the remote chance I'd be able to help a team, just leave the builds being bad? and again ZB is 1 dshot to shutdown all team heals vs. WoH which is 2dshots.--Silven Shadow 05:45, July 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::::yes because no one is forcing you to use the zb monk QQ.--[[User:Relyk|'Relyk']] talk 05:51, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :::::::I thought the idea of this site was to provide the best opportunities of builds for those who can't think for themselves.--Silven Shadow 05:57, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :::::::: PS since you're clearly too stupid to put your responses at the end of the convo and love to just past ragey QQ bs in the middle, I cbf reading. I read the part where you actually thought you're better then me...then I laughed, it was actually funny since you can take that statement and put it here _______________ and it'd become true, sorry QQ more fail less.--Silven Shadow 06:01, July 28, 2010 (UTC) {reset)Holy fuck this is a lot of e-drama and e-peen enlargement. 06:11, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :wanna touch mine? =p--Silven Shadow 06:13, July 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::nah we changed that after the game was out for 4 years and people should figure out shit on their own. We can give people builds but we cant teach them. you can learn a lot from/about people on the talk pages though so gg.--[[User:Relyk|'Relyk']] talk 06:31, July 28, 2010 (UTC) So, since i cba reading all this bullshit, in concise sentences(or bullet points), say what you think is bad, what it should be changed to, and the reasons why. Life Guardian 06:50, July 28, 2010 (UTC) Ranger, Monk, Warrior Fixed the ranger coz i couldnt stand seeing melshot anymore. What else needs fixing: Cure hex on woh monk instead of veil, with veil in optionals. Evis axe and coward axe as the two optionals for warrior. I'll wait till somebody says something coz i have no idea how this wiki works, but i cringe everytime i see melshot on the page.--Silven Shadow 23:33, July 27, 2010 (UTC) hey i can do it too! --Oskar 02:50, July 28, 2010 (UTC) Silven's minibars bout half-way down are the closest thing to a proper balanced ab build, although a few skills should be option(infuse, make haste, ele elite, shield bash). First off cripshot is just plain superior to mel's at the current recharge, especially with the slight increase in cripple duration. If you need damage, remember mel's is conditional and consider point blank. Several ele fire elites will work well, including mind blast, searing flames and savannah heat. ... and eviscerate, well vincent, just because it's an old gvg standby and primal rage was hit with the nerfbat, doesn't mean it works well in 4v4s.. yes, ab is basically a 4v4 arena. It works ok, but you're gonna deal a hell of a lot more pressure(and damage) with coward axe and quick charging dismember. 09:52, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :log in--[[User:Relyk|'Relyk']] talk 09:57, July 28, 2010 (UTC) This is not that hard I hate nonsense. *The SH ele (or a competent MB ele) can cap by itself, so capping is taken care of. Plain and simple. *When it comes down to 4v4, both monks work fine, it's just a matter of personal experience with the build. Yep. *Snares in AB are solely there for snaring stragglers (or frontline in a 4v4, but this is AB; come on, who does that?) I'll give my opinion on this further down, but I digress. The ranger also packs rupts, which in the hands of someone decent, help a lot. Mhmm. *The frontline is ambiguous. Here, we see Eviscerate, which works well in 4v4 and decently at shrines. My opinion on the frontline: Eviscerate is much better than Primal Rage. Pretty Straightforward there. Primal gives you an IMS, but after a cancel stance, it is dildos. However, Eviscerate is not the most efficient option here. When it comes down to it, Coward Axe can apply Deep Wound on more targets, faster. Which equates to a directly proportional increase in capping speed. Straight up. It also means faster DW in general 4v4's (after condition removal). It deals just as much damage, but also comes with it's own powerful snare. It enhances snaring in general map movement (spearset says hi), and keeps players in place for you to wack on them. Rather than having Shock and Bull's, you have Coward and Bull's. Ultimately it's player preference... which is why, at a minimum, Coward Axe should be added as a variant frontline. Now this is where it gets liberal (for lack of a better term... I guess "funky" or "zazzy" or "wtfish" would work. meh.) My opinion on the Ranger: Let's analyze what we get with a ranger. We get a reasonably cheap and quick-recharging elite snare. We get 2 fast-recharging interrupts, but they can be blocked and are arguably harder to hit with compared to Mesmer rupts (one might be able to see what I'm leaning towards already). We get Poison... and Mending touch. Again, Crippling Shot's sole purpose is to snare stagglers. Rangers provide terrible, I repeat, terrible capping support and minuscule 4v4 support. If you (dare I say it) waste an elite and a character slot on a snare, I pity you. I'm not saying killing in AB is wrong, or that if you use Crippling Shot you are bad; killing people gives you points. I'm saying that I can get snares and rupts on different characters, and pack more 4v4 power and more capping power in a Mesmer. Before you herpderp and Rage of the Ntouka on/at me, look: *Agonizing/DChop *Sprint/Conjure/Rending Touch (if conjure true, 12+1+1/8+1/8+1/7) *Freezing Gust is all you need. I know, calm down. I'll buy you a Starbucks later if you quit BAWWWWing. Seriously, though - the attributes play out to 12+1+1/8+1/8(this is water)/7. You lose 1 second on Fall Back, but every character has an IMS anyway. You could actually drop Fall Back all together and use Flame/Storm Djinn's Haste or Armor of Mist. Doing that gets you another second on Gust, but remember you're running Coward, so that +1 second snare isn't vital. *123 to cap. (2)345 for stragglers and 4v4s. *The first optional: can be whatever; you can really play around with this Mesmer to suit your style. Shatter Enchantment, Chaos Storm, Overload, Power Leak, Empathy, Shatter Delusions, Drain Enchantment. If you go /P (see below) consider taking "Brace Yourself". *Second: If /P "Fall Back" (12+1+2/8+1/8/7), otherwise /A with Dash/Dark Escape. If the Ele takes Fall Back you can chain it (which can free up slots for monk). *Generally, this helps cap quickly and also provides strong 4v4 advantages at the cost of a more squishy character. ESurge speaks for itself in versatility. CoF is a general rupt and AoE damage/rupt at shrines. Hell, I can even think of a variant with VoR that would work at shrines and 4v4s. The monk slot is unchanged. This is my take on AB balance. With the recent buff to Mesmers, ESurge combined with other Mes skills can play a key role in AB (it already has, to an extent, in GvG). As you can see, there is a lot of personalization and leeway when enmeshing the builds together, yet they are always inherently meshed together in a way that makes them work together - the definition of a team. AB is based on capping (+1 point per shrine per 7 seconds) AND killing other players (+3 points). It's never advantageous to go on either extreme, so sitting in the middle with the most effective and efficient means of doing both is the definition of balance. Thus, a balanced team. Simple :) Rikk Panda {a.k.a. Benny Lava} 11:57, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :Cripshot has a lot more utility than Esurge. Your ele bar is speccing into 4 attributes. Nice try. :\ Vincent Evan [Air Henchman] 16:51, July 28, 2010 (UTC) ::na cos if we have domoge then how can we loose?--Oskar 16:53, July 28, 2010 (UTC) ::: What's wrong with 4 attributes? It's not like they all require superiors or something stupid like that (and you don't have to run Fall Back, nothing is forcing you). And elaborating would be nice. Rikk Panda {a.k.a. Benny Lava} 22:35, July 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::wel u see in abee we wont damage to domage other peoples accidentlied to damoge it--Oskar 22:43, July 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::: Ah. Anyway, i'd still take a mesmer or ritaulist over a ranger, unless that player was determined to run ranger. in which case i'd kick him. Brutal, i know Rikk Panda {a.k.a. Benny Lava} 01:59, July 29, 2010 (UTC) I'll have a go at this. Gimme 23:08, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :'fraid not--Oskar 23:14, July 28, 2010 (UTC) ::The key is to savage shot Lightning Orb so you take less damage Rikk Panda {a.k.a. Benny Lava} 01:59, July 29, 2010 (UTC) :::I thought the key was to achop healing burst a few seconds after meteor?Gimme 02:59, July 29, 2010 (UTC) :The build that's on the buildpage now is fine, I prefer dchop over agon, but agon gives more consistant rupts on guard. Trying to put an edenial mesmer in means your just wasting a spot that shud be supportive with a squishy damage sponge reducing your teams survivablity. Ofcourse there is the upside of a mesmer, youre able to kill a shrine in 2seconds instead of 3! good on ya. As much as I don't like vincent, he knows what he's saying for once.--Silven Shadow 04:43, July 29, 2010 (UTC) ::My issue is that mesmers are squishy and although, in some circumstances, they can apply better pressure than rangers, it's a trade-off for survivability. With stances, snares and mending touch.. standard ranger bars are quite low maintenance for the monk. I guess it's somewhat comparable to assassins verses warriors, assassins can pump damage and pressure .. but lack defensive utility. Not to say a warrior can't pump out dps if needed.Gimme 07:04, July 29, 2010 (UTC) ::: Exactly. Ultimately it depends on a lot of factors, such as the map, the players' abilities and the competence of your monk. EDIT: If the ele, mesmer, and warrior focus on one target, be that through vent or random chat pinging, that target dies. People don't carry resses in AB (they shouldn't, anyway) so if something dies, it rapes the other team. Mission accomplished. You cap shrines faster, and lose 10 armor on your team (which isn't too bad considering the shutdown you could bring on the mesmer). Rikk Panda {a.k.a. Benny Lava} 07:14, July 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::Interesting discussion here. On the warrior at least I would at least put enraging charge over shield bash, especially if you're going to run evise. Shield bash is nice but in my experience what you're usually dealing with in AB (more than c-space linebackers) is SF eles spamming on you forever, which is easily dealt with by running sentinel insignias and a fire shield all the time. Also d-chop quarter breaks a skill almost every time on AB players. Zero.Six 22:43, July 29, 2010 (UTC) :::::Shield bash beats out enraging everytime, if you seriously waste ur evis like mad youre just bad and yeah feel free to enraging. But don't come crying to me when you get anald roughly from behind...because you will. And as ive said before dchop > agon except if you have really bad lag, but even then u can still qrupt...--Silven Shadow 23:56, July 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Enraging give you an energy IMS and an initial half charge to start killing faster. Most AB battles are short or just picking off stragglers, which enraging is better for. There are good argument's for either skill or even lion's comfort to maintain your adrenaline between shrines / skirmishes. Zero.Six 00:45, July 30, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Enraging would also make eviscerate somewhat more viable, although there are still better options. 19:28, July 31, 2010 (UTC) ZB gonna take it out in a sec it's not meta it's just shite--Silven Shadow 09:53, August 25, 2010 (UTC) :There, fixed the ranger too --Silven Shadow 07:18, August 26, 2010 (UTC) ::thanks babes--Oskar 11:57, August 26, 2010 (UTC)